S.Rybka: 11 hours 4 minutes. I welcome all. My name is Sergey Rybka. Today, me and you, the audience of ‘Govorit Moskva’, will address the questions to the Head of the Moscow City Department of Education Isaac Kalina. Isaac Iosifovich, good morning to you as well.
I. Kalina: Good day everyone.
S.Rybka: Today marks a week since the President's manifestation to Federal Assembly. A question to you as the official, not the last person in the field of education and on the federal level, since you are the head of the Department of Education in the metropolis as well. What did you notice for yourself in this manifest? By the way, were you present at the Arena when the President was speaking?
I. Kalina: No.
S.Rybka: Nevertheless, surely, you were curious about the message for people from your industry; what is necessary and valuable?
I. Kalina: Firstly, I was not merely curious, but I listened carefully. Secondly, I would not divide the passage of the manifest into pieces assigned to one industry, and not meant for the other sector. It is not there. The matter is that fortunately, everything that the President said about education correlates with the accomplishments of the recent years in Moscow. It is logical; we all understand that the Mayor of Moscow Sergey Semyonovich Sobyanin has been in the President's team for a long time and, therefore, the flow of the Moscow education under his management bonds with the movement of Russian education which was displayed by the President. And for us, it is the following stages of development of what we already are doing in Moscow. But I am convinced that all lines of the manifest are a remarkable training material. Therefore I ordered the Methodical Center of the city to study all sections of the passage very attentively and turn it into a set of training materials in various subjects.
S.Rybka: Who are these materials intended for? To schools, other institutions?
I. Kalina: All materials created by the Methodical Center of the city are intended to help the teacher. I am confident that today, teachers of many subjects will want and will utilize that material which was presented by the President during the manifestation. Therefore, I once again want to repeat that the whole text of the manifest is meaningful for education system because the education system has to understand not only what it does just at the moment, but the purpose of operation, what it does, and how today's achieved results in the system will be essential for the country.
S.Rybka: Isaak Iosifovich, one question — is it the first time when you assign the Methodical Center such task to prepare materials based on a big performance of the First person? Or is this practice more or less regular? I did not hear about it before.
I.KALINA: No, it is not the first time. This practice is regular. Probably, I have to admit that such a powerful array of information useful to school, yes for the first time.
S.Rybka: When it is offered to teachers for reflecting, how do you expect it to be used? For example, will the teachers use it just in work, in the subjects connected to history or some social sciences? The methodic toolkit, what is its purpose?
I.KALINA: Firstly, we, fortunately, have long gone from as you have shown a particular handbook, today we have a very powerful tool in the hands of a Moscow teacher - this is the Moscow Electronic School.
S.Rybka: Big talk, yes.
I.KALINA: Therefore, all materials which can be useful to the Moscow teacher, they are located within the Moscow electronic school. Further, the teacher has an opportunity today to use them as he finds it necessary. Precisely here, I would not interfere with the work of the teacher because the duty of municipality structures to assist the teacher but not to dictate or control the teacher at all. Therefore, the material will be uploaded to the Moscow electronic school in that version that methodologists consider it the most convenient for teachers. As we involve teachers who show high results of their students to be our methodologists, I am sure that everything created by colleagues for the colleagues-teachers will be used and used with high efficiency. But how each teacher uses it, I think, we can trust teachers to do it themselves.
S.Rybka: Since you mentioned electronic school, the topic has such grand potential. The project has existed for more than a year. In 2016, when it was launched, it was a project inside only six schools. Since then, you have described in various interviews what it is, even on such a simple everyday level. For example, tablets are handed out to students; some interactive whiteboards are used, although I have never used one and still have no idea what it means. Today, let's have a big talk, there's time - what is Moscow electronic school? In summary, so that it's clear to those who are not raising children; who don't send children to schools, like me, a person who is not a parent yet, unfortunately. What is an electronic school in Moscow?
I.KALINA: Moscow electronic school, I would say, it is an assimilation of all those tools which teachers would typically use, and integration into those new tools that technologies provide today. So the Moscow electronic school is the assistant to the teacher, and it is created and exists only in the consideration for teachers. Yes, it is clear that the teacher works with students, the teacher interacts with parents of students, therefore, of course, both students, and their parents can also use the materials in Moscow electronic school but after all the primary purpose, let's say the mission of Moscow electronic school is to aggregate in unified and very convenient for the teacher format everything that is required for preparation for lessons, for carrying out lessons, including students' homework check, so in a new electronic format.
S.Rybka: Students, respectively, hand over tasks in a new electronic format?
I.KALINA: They can. Unfortunately, so far, I have to tell you that not absolutely all schools, not wholly all teachers use this tool. While mastering something new, as a rule, we are disturbed by an old habit. But I would not force it. Moreover, Moscow electronic school is unique in the fact that … well, it is clear that experts in information technologies developed the platform, and today teachers do the content. The opportunity was provided to teachers to upload that content which they most often use, which they, teachers, consider the most valuable. We announced a contest on the development of electronic lesson scenarios. In general, it is nothing new to the teacher. Each teacher writes hundreds of lesson plans every day; it is the traditional work of the teacher. Today he has an opportunity either to use the available electronic scenario of a lesson, or to take it as a base and quickly polish it for himself, or create something on his own.
S.Rybka: Nevertheless, to the beginning, in summary, it is a particular network resource which any teacher can approach for any need; and both parents and students can use some elements of this resource. However, primarily it is for the teacher, correct?
I.KALINA: Excellent explanation. Thanks, Sergey. It is great when there is a translator between the official and the people. It is amazing.
S.Rybka: I hope I did not sting by this remark.
I.KALINA: No, actually it is the opposite.
S.Rybka: It's just that there is a desire to understand how this is technically done. Is it some third-party website? Everyone registers there, gets an account, creates a password, and logs in - is it organized like that? Is there a smartphone app, for example?
I.KALINA: Usually, each teacher has an access to this resource; it is personal, and only the teacher of Moscow has access to this resource so far. Students and parents of students have as well. Generally, you described that well yes, he can use or not use; it is the choice of the teacher. Although those teachers who have tried - and there are already tens of thousands of such teachers in the city today - they, as a rule, do not neglect the Moscow electronic school and use with increasing frequency.
S.Rybka: Tens of thousands. It turns out that not all. Is there an idea of the coverage scale? Tens of thousands it, after all, is precisely how many; how many schools, even if estimating not in teachers but institutions?
I.KALINA: If institutions, then all. However, at each school normally not all the teachers use it.
S.Rybka: How is it synchronized then? Someone works according to plans in written paper form and accepts handwritten works, and someone uses an electronic format?
I.KALINA: Of course
S.Rybka: Does it not awake some … it is necessary to call it the conflict. That is not an argument in a literal sense but just the difference of approaches.
I.KALINA: The conflicts are improvement sources. And the main thing that a more progressive and effective won in any dispute. And we see that the history of the Moscow electronic school began with six schools and one and a half thousand teachers, today actively at Moscow electronic school, following the results of February - everything is accessible: who does what and when - we had already 22 thousand active users of Moscow electronic school among teachers.
S.Rybka: And among parents, is there no such figure? I ask because we take this for news, based on this we deliver the news…
I.KALINA: I understand. There are figures. But still, there are significantly fewer parents. I once again want to emphasize that so far, at this stage, Moscow electronic school is created by teachers for the teachers. Here when the teacher begins to use resources of Moscow electronic school fully and actively, naturally, you said correctly, then the conflict between approaches will cause that parents will reach Moscow electronic school, but the most important — students.
S.Rybka: I remind the audience that we are talking with the Head of Moscow City Department of Education, Isaac Kalina. You can send your questions to the SMS portal + 7-925-8888-94-8, or our govoritmskbot to the Telegram channel, write there too. You said a little earlier that not all teachers are so eager to switch to this format. But teachers are not on their own ...
I.KALINA: I did not pronounce the word "with pleasure"; this is your translation. “With caution” - this is a more accurate argument.
S.Rybka: Alright. Though in the educational institutions that train these teachers, in universities, is there any orientation towards this program? Are there programs in pedagogical universities that prepare for such a format of work?
I.KALINA: Indeed. Moscow City University is the chief supplier of teachers for the city of Moscow, so to speak; they purchased the same equipment that the Department of Information Technologies installs in Moscow schools today, and there are specialized courses for students of the MCU, so they immediately familiarize to working in the format of Moscow electronic school. Besides, students of our MCU are frequent visitors to schools; they organize clubs; they come to practice at school. Being in schools, they are, of course, also involved in this format. Therefore, yes, probably the teachers of my generation approach with caution, and this is quite natural, I would in no case judge any teacher for this caution, they are careful in accepting new tools. But young teachers adapt much faster; for them, it is a familiar, usual way of life in general. Well, and the students who will come to school tomorrow, they, I think, would not imagine a different learning process for themselves.
S.Rybka: Now we mainly talked about this shell, the environment in which information is accumulated, where it is exchanged, and evaluated. What are purely technical means provided by this electronic school? When I read the phrase "interactive whiteboard," I don't quite understand what is it. Is it a widescreen with a touchscreen or what? When I hear that tablets are handed out to some of the students for work, also sounds like not to everyone ... could you tell us about the technical side, what is it? Technological.
I.KALINA: If you want the more profound points, I think you can invite my colleague, comrade, Artem Valeryevich Ermolaev; he will acquaint you, including all the technological characteristics. But I can say since I have the same board in my office as in the classrooms, this is an amazingly convenient tool. In fact, if you simplify it completely, then I have a tablet on the table, and the same larger tablet with fantastic image quality, having passed all the checks of various sanitary services, absolutely harmless; with access to the Internet; with the ability to show any television fragments, and with the ability of a teacher to control this board from his laptop etc.
S.Rybka: Send any materials there. Is there Wi-Fi in modern schools for visitors, for students?
I.KALINA: For students at the same time ... this is a large complex project that the Department of Information Technology executes for schools in Moscow on behalf of the Mayor of Moscow. This is, first of all, the teacher's workspace. This is such a panel that we talked about, the teacher's laptop, which allows him to work, including with this board.
S.Rybka: Does the school hand out these laptops? Or a person uses the one he is accustomed to working with, which he has at his use?
I.KALINA: For the second time in seven years, the school updates teachers with the laptops. The first time, as I remember, in 2012 or 2013, and already now ... this is a process, there are a lot of teachers, thank God, so the process is not so quick, and usually lasts for several months. The first delivery of laptops to teachers in Moscow was sometime between 2012-2013, and now there is a replacement. This is the tool that the city supplies the teacher to work. As for the students, you understand that today, every student ... firstly, I want to say that all this is intended only for high school. None of this has been delivered to the elementary school yet because, on behalf of Moscow Mayor, we have allowed schools to study the opinions of primary school teachers and parents of primary schoolchildren. And most likely that such equipment in 2019 will only be delivered to those schools that conclude that they need it. But mainly we are talking about students in higher grades. And today, thank God, almost everyone in Moscow, you can say, has devices that allow working in this mode in the classroom. Also, today in the libraries of nearly every school there is a small number of iPads that are convenient for work; if the child does not have one, or it happens that he forgot, he can get and use it.
But at the same time, Sergey, recognize - otherwise, you will get the impression that for six 45 minute lessons, all the students are sitting and just looking at the screen. All this is included in the active material of the lesson; so when it makes sense, and it is more effective than any traditional method from the teacher's point of view.
S.Rybka: I will allow myself to ask this question again. Wi-fi. It's just that in most Moscow institutions you can use it. How is this arranged in schools?
I.KALINA: Together with the supply of boards, along with the delivery of laptops today, the Department of Information Technology connects wi-fi in every school; many schools had it before, but the volume was insufficient. Today, power calculated so that even if all students connect at the same time, it must be sustained. But all at the same time it never, thank God, never happens.
S.Rybka: Are these networks freely available? Any owner of a device, smartphone, tablet ... there are accounts for students, right?
I.KALINA: No. There are access codes. And what's more, today, many schools have even come up with an excellent educational game. For example, when entering the school in the morning, you see that today the password, for example, is the year when the Japanese War began. So, the students, to enter wi-fi, recall the dates, they share the year of the Russian-Japanese War with each other. I gave the simplest example; of course, there are more complicated ones for this task.
S.Rybka: I assume there are some content filters. So, it’s not possible to enter any resource through these networks distributed by schools.
I.KALINA: Yes. It existed when the priority national education project in 2006 was performed. I don't know if you remember or not, but there was such an order of the President. All Russian schools were connected to the Internet. Until 2006, not all schools in Russia had an Internet connection. In 2006-2007, all the schools were connected, and at the same time, a so-called content filtering system was introduced, which if necessary, blocks access to those sites that are not needed ... And then, you must grasp that there is a teacher during the lesson who controls this process, guides the students.
S.Rybka: We have an informational discussion. The final question on this topic. Is there a measurement on how the introduction of these technologies and an e-school has affected the performance of those schools where the program is running, in comparison to those schools where this program is not yet available in such volume?
I.KALINA: We had six schools that were the first to start operating. Their results are increasing. Although, you know, I must say that maybe not at such pace, but the results are growing among all schools. And it would be probably inaccurate to say that there is only one mechanism for increasing the results. The results of the students, of course, are linked with the technologies that are in the school. But they are much more correlated with the teacher who is at school.
S.Rybka: Let's continue the next half-hour by talking about training the employees for schools. We will be interested in discussing whether there is enough or not enough staff; where do the teachers come to Moscow schools from - admittedly, not only from Moscow universities. Overall, we will talk about this and much more with Isaac Kalina, the Head of Moscow City Department of Education after the news release.
S.Rybka: 11:35 a.m. My name is Sergey Rybka. My interlocutor today is the Head of Moscow City Department of Education, Isaac Kalina. I promised that we would talk about teachers, exactly our listener asks: "Isaac Iosifovich, recently there were rumors about the introduction of a school uniform for teachers. Is it planned to implement this idea?" - asks our 78th listener. Have you heard about this?
I.KALINA: I listen to the debates about a uniform for schoolchildren, and I perceive it very smoothly because there is a legislative norm, so we don't interfere with these issues. There are sanitary requirements for the clothes of the child. And I hope parents apprehend to these. We brought these sanitary requirements to schools; they can be viewed in the public domain. But about the uniform for teachers ... honestly the first time I hear about this.
S.Rybka: It seems to me it is better that way.. Alright, let's talk specifically about teachers. Are there enough of them?
I.KALINA: The question about "enough" is always a question not about quantity, but quality. Therefore, I will answer it this way ...
S.Rybka: And if answering strictly about quantity?
I.KALINA: Strictly about the quantity - there are no problems; when a vacancy opens at school, and it is common, then there are ten or sometimes 70 applicants for that position. Hence, I can admit that today it is one of the problems for me; I have to say to many friends that I can't help them if their friends or some relatives want to become teachers of Moscow school. Because there are not a lot of vacancies, and when spots appear, then this is a responsible procedure for filling a vacant position. This is not the liability of the Department. Choosing a teacher is the school's responsibility. Nevertheless, the Department strives to help the headmasters of schools in this question. We have an opportunity to direct the applicant teacher to independent diagnostics. And a considerable number of the people trying to become the teacher of Moscow school are addressed by headmasters of schools go through this independent diagnostics before acceptance; which very precisely determines by a subject …
S.Rybka: Level of training probably not in medical …
I.KALINA: Well, on medical there is separate, it is not us.
S.Rybka: Just the word "diagnostics" forces to relate primarily to it. It is clear, of course, that the speech is not about this.
I.KALINA: No. Focusing on health it is excellent for youth. But diagnostics appears not only regarding health. Diagnostics can be about many other things; particularly, on knowledge of the subject which the teacher is coming to students with. There is an exact diagnostic. Also, I admit that headmasters rejected about, 70 percent of applicants, who came from different cities and tried becoming Moscow teachers because their results of diagnostics were insufficient to apply for the position at Moscow school. Then, we have Moscow City University; I have already spoken about it.
S.Rybka: The main supplier of your faculty.
I.KALINA: Today the dean of this university with our support and assistance of school headmasters, began a very interesting project when undergraduates - and now we decided that it has to start much earlier - during the entire period of training at university regularly participate in tests, contests; and according to the results, the strongest later become teachers of Moscow schools. To winners of all these assessment procedures, we guarantee that we will assist them in getting a job as a teacher in Moscow school. Moreover, today, we very willingly accept in ranks of Moscow teachers' team graduates of non-pedagogical higher education institutions.
S.Rybka: For example, of what majors?
I.KALINA: For instance, the graduate of any engineering higher education institution on condition that he passes psychology and pedagogical training; and we opened such practice at the Moscow City University…
S.Rybka: Is it a free supplementary training or paid courses? If the person wants to go to teaching from the primary practice, then he pays for classes and receives additional skills? How does it work?
I.KALINA: I am not used to separating between paid and free that …
S.Rybka: It is possible to envy then.
I.KALINA: In Moscow, there are not a lot of paid facilities; it is necessary to admit. Therefore there are, I am sure, free courses for those with very high results, and paid ones for those, whose results are slightly lower and they need a little bit more training.
S.Rybka: I am asking not to make out some self-interest of Moscow City Department of Education, but to understand how it works.
I.KALINA: The Department can have no self-interest; we are the public organization; we do not even have an individual account for any extra budget. However, MCU can have a self-interest; and I would be glad, if people who aspire to become teachers, having got additional education, can maybe pay some small sum for the fact that they are taught to be the teacher. Here, you see, it would indicate their conscious choice. Today many come…
S.Rybka: I caught that you mentioned that people come from engineering specialties. And?
I.KALINA: They come and from the classic universities, say, the graduate of philology faculty of MSU becomes an excellent literature teacher. From Mendeleev University, many come today and teach chemistry. Today there is a rather big palette of opportunities for people who … and, there is one more subject which even though it has existed for several decades, but still is considered new to the school - informatics. And the fact that graduates of engineering higher education institutions began to come very cheerfully to be the teacher of informatics, this is an excellent thing. We even have Olympiad this year— "The new teacher of new informatics". These people come … after all, know, the first teachers of informatics from mathematics teachers, as a rule, they are excellent teachers, but they are not practice-oriented. And these people come, and besides teaching informatics, they conduct different clubs of interests: robotics and many other clubs, for boys … why I said "boys"? Probably it was gender snobbery. There are both girls and boys.
S.Rybka: If we speak about these specialties: IT industry, programming in all its shapes; what can entice the person with this emphasis, that is profoundly demanded, into school?
I.KALINA: Probably, two things. In general, helping people to study is a delightful job, you try. By the way, Sergey, we have many journalists who lead clubs for children. So not only you invited me, but also I can ask you.
S.Rybka: I do not exclude.
I.KALINA: And the wage.
S.Rybka: There is an average parameter on the wage of the teacher in metropolis without specification of a subject, without specification of loading, an average figure, sorry, we think in numbers.
I.KALINA: Average, as always joke like temperature in the hospital.
S.Rybka: I understand how conditional it is.
I.KALINA: The average value exists; today for February, it is somewhere around 90 thousand rubles. But it is average. There are, of course, teachers who receive more. Some teachers receive less. But we agreed with the management unit - it is a soft way to say "agreed" - that in 2017 the lowest level would be 64 thousand per month, and in 2018 — 68 thousand. And I have to tell you that by 2017 it is executed by almost all schools. We investigated; so we have, I think,130 teachers whose average salary was lower than 64 thousand. We began to examine why the agreement is not carried out. These are, as a rule, the teachers who do not work full time. For example, the teacher reached retirement age, he refuses the homeroom teacher position and a portion of teaching hours, but the school wants to keep him. And it is good that they keep that teacher. But this is the reason payment becomes slightly less than colleagues' — the average is 90 thousand.
S.Rybka: What is the average load for these 90 thousand? How many hours per week?
I.KALINA: Average load within the city now is around 23 hours, lessons in a week.
S.Rybka: Besides, these are also some self-preparation and methodic practices.
I.KALINA: I would not call it methodical work, but, of course, the teacher must first check works of students; and secondly, it is necessary to prepare for the lesson. Moscow electronic school saves a lot of time for preparation for classes of those who have begun to use it. There is a lot of available material. Also do not forget that teachers, most of the teachers, have solemn part of their work under the name "homeroom teacher". I think, Sergey what any person who studied at school remembers and - I hope, most often with gratitude - is the homeroom teacher. It is a huge and serious part of work too.
S.Rybka: Let's look back to the beginning of our conversation when we spoke about the implementation of new technologies, including communicational ones at schools. For sure you are aware that now the vast majority of parents keeps in contact with homeroom teachers in some chats, usually WhatsApp. Do you have any opinion regarding that? Because, unfortunately, these chats, and the VKontakte groups and other social networks become sources of often unreliable information. Is such excess teacher accessibility to the parent and a chance of parents discussing something, conjecturing and offering can be a problem for school? If you understand what I mean…
I.KALINA: Yes, I understand. And I am grateful that you brought up this topic. I would like that the parental community treated the time of the homeroom teacher much more carefully. There is such an opposite reaction. I always joke that each teacher, when assigning homework, thinks that on this day no other teacher will distribute homework. And when the student has all the homework, it is enormous. Also, probably, and the parent when speaking with the homeroom teacher, he is sure that on this day nobody, except him has asked. And when parents of all 25 students have contacted the teacher, of course, this is very time-consuming of the homeroom teacher. Therefore I hope that over time, a unique culture of this new communication will occur. Because new opportunities at first blind all of us, and we begin to use them sometimes somewhat unreasonably, and the culture of communication comes over time. I am sure, those courageous homeroom teachers, I will use this word, who survive this pressure and a surge in conversations, they win a lot. And over time all this will reach the full cultural course. But this way of communication seems very remarkable to me because everyone is always busy; they do not have time to come and talk face-to-face individually. I think that it is a very beneficial and efficient way of communication. Well, of course, the culture of this communication is necessary today.
S.Rybka: Listeners and my management will not forgive me if I do not ask this question. Perhaps, it is connected with problems in communication. I want to review the stories related to attacks at schools. We remember events in Ivanteyevka near Moscow; we have in memory a case in the suburb of Ulan-Ude; this year also, there is the Perm case last year too. Details of these stories are known to most of the listeners and you. Based on the events in regions, were there any decisions explicitly made in Moscow? In safety, in instructing teachers and parents. Generally, how did Moscow react to it?
I.KALINA: I can admit that for not short administrative life, I learned that reacting to a case is a dangerous thing. Systemically, consistently, without waiting for cases to occur, we must work on those tasks which are always accurate. Therefore, for example, what you told about security and private security companies (CHOP), in Moscow, we created with active support of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, our colleagues of Department of Regional Security, and National Guard the system of protection which many people from other cities bagan considering. Every case strains and forces to control such elements even more attentively. As for instructing the teachers, I will return to a subject of the homeroom teacher again if you allow. I am sure that nobody and nothing can be more useful at school for the prevention of similar cases than the attentive homeroom teacher. For this purpose, long before these cases, we began to convince headmasters of schools to raise not only payment for teaching, but also wages for homeroom teachers. I can tell in the last year alone we managed to increase the average extra pay for a class — it is average and at each school is different — but also the wage for the homeroom teacher, if the average pay last year was roughly six thousand, then this year it is already nearly 13 thousand.
S.Rybka: Per month?
I.KALINA: Yes. Sergey, you looked at me in a way that you consider that it is a lot.
S.Rybka: Is it a lot?
I.KALINA: No, it is not much. It is a serious part of the work of any teacher, and it has to be paid sincerely. And it is good that headmasters of schools understand it and follow today.
S.Rybka: Is there any additional training necessary for the teacher who will be a homeroom teacher? Can everyone be the homeroom teacher?
I.KALINA: First of all, if the person came in teaching, then he has to study psychology, it is, probably, a fundamental element of knowledge.
S.Rybka: Any teacher? How does the knowledge of a homeroom teacher differs form those who were not yet trusted with a class?
I.KALINA: I think, not on the volume of knowledge, but the level of abilities. Here the most important - the remarkable phrase is written here: to listen, think, know. I believe that this quality comes over time, and, of course, it is essential for a homeroom teacher to be able to hear the students, reflect on what they say, and know in any particular situation how to help. Therefore, I am sure that the most crucial step today to reduce heat or tension … everything goes from a specific hostility, the child's offendedness by someone or something. Indeed, it is very close attention of the administration of schools to homeroom teachers. And the response of homeroom teachers is their attention to children. There are no other ways that existed in schools throughout many years. And no, I do not know, bars and others will replace a contribution of the homeroom teacher to decrease this tension.
S.Rybka: We began this conversation with the President's manifest to the Federal Assembly. Now, as at schools teach composition principles, we will have a solid round composition because we will finish with the event with Vladimir Putin's participation. The day before in Yekaterinburg he held a meeting on the development of a system of secondary professional education. We talked mainly about secondary education and a little bit about the training of teachers, about the higher education. And secondary professional education — a subject which, honestly, you how it seems to me they try to make fashionable. For example, there is a competition WorldSkills about which there is the bulk of publications, and the President meets participants of this competition, yesterday there was a separate meeting devoted to it. But has the secondary professional education become so fashionable that people aspire to go to college first and not a university?
I.KALINA: I have to say that this discussion yesterday of the President with colleagues is delightful to me because I want to say again for the several years Moscow has been the leader in Russia in the competition WorldSkills, our children win the national championships, our kids very successfully performed…
S.Rybka: What does it give them? Do they receive some document, which makes it easier to enroll somewhere later?
I.KALINA: I can tell one thing, I wanted that winners of the national WorldSkills championship and international ones, remained in their colleges and directed the corresponding clubs for students of colleges and for many schoolchildren who also go to clubs in colleges today. We succeeded to persuade to stay only a few. Do you know why? Because they were fully bargained. Already some companies, organizations watch closely the results of the national WorldSkills championship, especially the international one. And these children are already 101% employed; they have good offers. But I am glad that along with work which they chose somewhere, most of them continued to lead clubs today; but not as the primary job, but combining the work in the company with maintaining the clubs. In general, I have to tell you that in the last years, probably, something, thank God, happened to seniors and their parents. Parents paused imposing on the mature guy … again I with gender distinction… on the adult who is the graduate of the school, the unfulfilled …
S.Rybka: And to enroll him in higher education institutions on some majors which are not so useful anymore and, above all, maybe, there is a surplus.
I.KALINA: They began to trust children more. Therefore, many children, when choosing between a not so exciting major in the university and an exciting major in college, began to come to college. Today children come to colleges with perfect certificates, with the highest grades, after the ninth grade; a considerable number of such children come to colleges today. I will race if I say that today, college is the most fashionable. But the fact that today the college is not related to failure in life it is absolute. Graduates of colleges find well-paid work much easier and quicker. You know, the world became such that abilities are valued more than knowledge probably because skills became rarer than knowledge.
S.Rybka: We have very little time left. Are you ready to name a job which on this education level is the most popular in Moscow? Who do they seek to become?
I.KALINA: It is a huge palette, starting from the cabinetmaker and ending the programmer.
S.Rybka: Isaak Kalina, Head of Department of formation of the city of Moscow. Thank you for this conversation. We are waiting for you again.